This general thread is in response to another thread regarding "loss of webpage space" to advertising, to try raise extra money for the organization (and consequent loss of space to useful features to our community). Now, I do understand the concept of advertising, being around for 5 decades or so, and I can see how it works in certain situations - for example advertising Coca Cola to the billions of viewers of the super bowl, where a small percentage of increase of sales could pay for its cost, and then some - But really, how many of us AAVSO website users are going to go out and buy S&T because we now see its logo on the right side?
In the past ten years, I cannot recall a single ad on any website to which I have responded. If I need something, I go out and find it - Google for it, look it on Amazon or Ebay. I have absolutely no need for advertising thrust in my face. I have done my best to condition myself to shut it out of my conciousness.
So, am I wrong, am I so different from other AAVSO users? That others will wildly go clicking on ads and enormously increase revenue to our sponsors? If that is true, then I will gladly just shut up and never bring this up again.
Mike LMK
Hi all: Yes, it nice to know that Sky and Telescope sponsors this page. But, I know lots of people who already get S&T as apart of their membership and just subscribe already. So. I don't think that it will increase sales. So, let it die as a forum. I put up with it. Best HNL
Mike,
I agree with you 100%. It is a constant source of irritation and annoyance to me - although I am told I am easily irritated! I understand the need for sponsorship logo's to appear on the web page or course, but why so prominent? Put them at the bottom of the home page!
The biggest 'sponsors' of the AAVSO are it's paying members are they not? (maybe they're not!). Doesn't feel like it to me at the moment .
Gary [PYG]
I think that is a great point. Our members are one of our most significant streams of revenue and support. Generally you don't want to disrupt one stream to tap another. In part that depends on how much that new revenue stream might bring in. But the support from members is more than just financial so it is important for members to make their feelings known.
I think this is a kind of provocation by the new leadership in order to check the tolerance of the AAVSO members to such an action.
I believe that non-commercial web page as the AAVSO one that claiming to unite astronomical community, a place where we can meet amateurs and professionals should be kept free of commercial advertising unless the new leadership does not intend to turn it into a colorful razzle stall.
Following this, one day we will wake up with ads not only from companies related to astronomy, but also of any other goods. And if anyone from the leadership ever hits upon the brilliant idea to add pop-up ads on every click it will become a “great fun”.
As John Martin said the support from members is more than just financial and the members are those who make the AAVSO the leading organization in the field of variable star observations.
Best regards,
Velimir
Membership dues and donations cover approximately 10% of the cost of running the AAVSO in a typical year. As members, we are collectively getting an almost-free ride! Our finances are always very tight, and because most of our budget is for staff, any reduction on the expense side would result in reduced services.
I don't like ads either -- but bring on the ads!
Gary Billings (ex-Treasurer)
I actually thought it was nice to have the links posted. I know SBIG has donated lots of equipment and S&T has written numerous favorable articles so I think that this is a case of showing support for sponsors as well as advertising for them. I don't find it objectionable at all.
Paul Temple
Hi Gary,
since you have insider information and know that the members bring about 10% of the total AAVSO budget, how much the ads bring in addition?
Is this another 10% (which I doubt since there are not that many sponsors).
Regards,
Josch (HMB)
Hi Josch,
Overall figures like what % dues+donations contrib to the finances are not insider info -- the info is in the Annual Report (Treasurer's report) every year.
How much does sponsorship ads bring? I don't know that info -- I expect it is very little, actually. But, we're already doing dues, sustaining dues, donations, bequests, sponsor-a-variable star, sponsor specific purchases, etc, and finances are still always tight. Putting on ads does not reduce the "payload" information we provide (e.g. "who's on line" just got moved to another page), and if it nets any money (and/or equipment), well, we need that money!
We freely make suggestions / requests on these forums for web page functionality, features in VSP, VSX, other programs etc. Two HQ staff are deducated to IT support and coding, at least one more does application coding at least part of the time -- right there, the salaries greatly exceed dues. (In addition, volunteers contribute to these activities.)
Gary Billings
[quote=BGW]
How much does sponsorship ads bring? I don't know that info -- I expect it is very little, actually.
[/quote]
Well, doesn't Gary's statement really sum it up then? Why irritate many members of our community, and lower the appearance, distract from the functionality, of a really excellent scientific webpage, if its for a very minimal benefit?
I would expect the best answer lies "behind the scenes". We need to improve the investment performance of the AAVSO endowment portfolio a few percentage points
and THAT would surely solve the funding problem!
Mike LMK
Hello Mike/LMK
You suggested that "I would expect the best answer lies "behind the scenes". We need to improve the investment performance of the AAVSO endowment portfolio a few percentage points
and THAT would surely solve the funding problem!
Well, its not so simple. The Investment portfolio has met or exceeded its benchmark for funds that invest endowments for hundreds of non profits, and educational institutions recently. We did make recent changes in the past 2 years to improve the yields. While even higher returns are available, higher losses are also available in a downturn. We operate the Investments so that they will last in perpetuity, which we think is appropriate. We limit our withdrawals to 4-5% of the income. This is what most all non profits do.
We welcome anyone to join the AAVSO, run for Council, and join the Investment Committee or others to bring their expertise to the organization.
For those who are not members and can afford to be, we welcome your feedback, but would appreciate if you would join the organzation and support its mission.
WGR
Gary
I have been
Hello all,
I have been following this thread with great interest, and I am a little surprised by some of the comments posted here. We were always featuring logos of companies on our web page, as other sister associations regularly do. By doing so, we recognize outside support and contribution. Those companies provide instruments and telescope parts. They provide filters and gratings. They provide software. They provide space in their publications for our needs, helping us realize our mission. Among them, we should (and will) recognize the National Science Foundation (NSF) and NASA, as they provide funding for our projects.
I could not agree more with John Martin’s excellent point that our members are our biggest supporters and advocates, and that their contribution is more than monetary. Our members are also our biggest asset and the focus of our work. We strive to stay up-to-date with the increasing (and varying) needs of our diverse community, to continue to provide the quality of services and attention our members are accustomed to, and to serve our mission: open the world of variable star astronomy to everyone everywhere.
Best wishes – clear skies,
Stella.
Well for every opinion, there is a counter opinion. I personally love ads of an astronomical nature and I bet many of us spend a lot of time perusing the ads in our favorite astronomy magazines. I don't think that the sponsorships have been intrusive and don't bother me at all - especially if they are helping support the organization.
.... Tim (HTY)
[quote=HTY]
Well for every opinion, there is a counter opinion. I personally love ads of an astronomical nature and I bet many of us spend a lot of time perusing the ads in our favorite astronomy magazines.
[/quote]
As I understand it, AAVSO policy is determined by the council and Director. However, the website is seen and used by EVERYONE who interacts with the organization, on a constant basis. It seems fair to me that the appearance of the webpage should be decided by a majority vote of all its users. Can we then have a vote on ads or no ads, and then stick to the outcome?
Mike LMK
Hello Mike
I think that would be lovely--vote on it. Just make sure the motion includes a sentence that each member agrees to increase his dues from the $75 current level, to about $100 to cover the loss of about $20-40K which has typically been recieved from the sponsorship, and that each non member web site user agrees to pay $25 to make up this loss of income.
We would not want to finance this change on the backs of the members only. I am glad to share the costs with those who cannot pay, but not the ones who could pay. We should realize that this cost might affect the number of members who renew.
And yes, AAVSO ByLaws designates the Council and the Director to set policy in the best interest of the Organization.
Gary W.
It appears that today our sponsors only appear on the main AAVSO page versus a vast majority of our webpages which was the case last Friday. Kudos. Equi-sized sponsor logos, arranged vertically in a single row, with a center justification in the right hand column would be nice a finishing touch. Things are improving every day. :-)
Kevin Paxson - PKV
Folks,
Please, let's ease up on this. I am SURE Stella is not trying to change things just 10 days in. Please give her a chance. Communicate with her directly about your concerns, I'm sure she will have an open ear. I sense that someone may be "putting the new Director to a test". Give her a break, please.
Chris Stephan SET
Wooster, OH